Hi,
Just bought a Swift 18 project.
Rudder broken, couple of stays need renewing, sails average, interior
needs paint job as the head lining was falling out and I've removed it.
Trailer good roller coaster. Sail number P124
Two queries.
How do these boats handle when solo sailing. Am I likely to be
over-powered.? I sail out of Poole.
Anybody got any ideas on value.
Cheers
John
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solo sailing
-
John Hainsworth
- Cruising
- Posts: 69
- Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:07 am
- Location: Poole Dorset
Solo sailing
Hi John,
The boat I own with my friend (079) is the about the same age as yours. We sail at Rutland, which although is a large 3000 acre lake (the same as Windemere), behaves mostly like a tideless estuary.
Boats obviously differ, but we find that the standard 105 ft sq Genoa is too large if used full, on the wind, in anything much over a high force 2 moving to a 3. We have a working jib of 79 ft sq which is larger than the designed size but dead right up to a 4/5 when you roll it by about 25% to a third. For me, this is true if sailing solo or with a crew. We tend to put the first reef in the main if gusting over a 4, but on your own you'd probably want to reef earlier than that. And of course it depends on your sailing style - I'm an ex-keelboat racer so like the challenge of a bit of welly!
With this setup, our boat handles very well, but has a tendency to screw up in the gusts if the head sail is too large. This is a general feature which many have spoken about. Of course you could just have the big genny and sail with it reefed a lot of the time, but I prefer the have a properly set smaller sail.
As for value... well depends... In early 2009, boats in good nick seemed to go for about £5k. The lowest price I've ever seen is around £2k.
Have you seen my post on Buying a Boat? There are a few things in there which might hep you with your project.
Good luck,
Tony G
The boat I own with my friend (079) is the about the same age as yours. We sail at Rutland, which although is a large 3000 acre lake (the same as Windemere), behaves mostly like a tideless estuary.
Boats obviously differ, but we find that the standard 105 ft sq Genoa is too large if used full, on the wind, in anything much over a high force 2 moving to a 3. We have a working jib of 79 ft sq which is larger than the designed size but dead right up to a 4/5 when you roll it by about 25% to a third. For me, this is true if sailing solo or with a crew. We tend to put the first reef in the main if gusting over a 4, but on your own you'd probably want to reef earlier than that. And of course it depends on your sailing style - I'm an ex-keelboat racer so like the challenge of a bit of welly!
With this setup, our boat handles very well, but has a tendency to screw up in the gusts if the head sail is too large. This is a general feature which many have spoken about. Of course you could just have the big genny and sail with it reefed a lot of the time, but I prefer the have a properly set smaller sail.
As for value... well depends... In early 2009, boats in good nick seemed to go for about £5k. The lowest price I've ever seen is around £2k.
Have you seen my post on Buying a Boat? There are a few things in there which might hep you with your project.
Good luck,
Tony G
Generally, I agree with last two posts. About three grand for a tatty one and five and a half for a tip top one (2 grand reserved for complete wrecks.)
I have the big genoa and have it full up to the upper end of force 3. She’ll round up quickly once the toe rail starts to reach the water. I sail around the North Wales coast, mostly solo. Sailing alone in a swift is a doddle providing you have some method of locking the tiller so you can let go a do the odd quick job (tiller mate or improvised). I bring the main halyard back to a clutch in front of the starboard winch (although for a long time I did manage fine with it cleated at the mast.) Reefing is easy because you can reach the lines from the cockpit. Contrary to other members experience, with a few turns in the genny, heaving to is not a problem and this provides a break to do anything more complicated (like making a brew. )
PS, I bring the topping lift back to the cockpit too.
I have the big genoa and have it full up to the upper end of force 3. She’ll round up quickly once the toe rail starts to reach the water. I sail around the North Wales coast, mostly solo. Sailing alone in a swift is a doddle providing you have some method of locking the tiller so you can let go a do the odd quick job (tiller mate or improvised). I bring the main halyard back to a clutch in front of the starboard winch (although for a long time I did manage fine with it cleated at the mast.) Reefing is easy because you can reach the lines from the cockpit. Contrary to other members experience, with a few turns in the genny, heaving to is not a problem and this provides a break to do anything more complicated (like making a brew. )
PS, I bring the topping lift back to the cockpit too.
Sailing Solo
I nearly always used to sail my Swift single handed, mostly in the solent. I lead the halyard and single line reefing back to the cockpit, and created a mechanism to raise and lower the cruising chute from the cockpit too.
I've been out in rough conditions and have always been impressed by the swifts composure and security for its size. Its a lovely boat (but I'm probably preaching to the converted!) I wish I hadn't had to sell mine.
The only problem I found was steering a straight course with the tiller tied (to go below etc). A tillerpilot would solve this but not cheap.
Good luck with your project.
I've been out in rough conditions and have always been impressed by the swifts composure and security for its size. Its a lovely boat (but I'm probably preaching to the converted!) I wish I hadn't had to sell mine.
The only problem I found was steering a straight course with the tiller tied (to go below etc). A tillerpilot would solve this but not cheap.
Good luck with your project.
solo sailing
I sail both single handed and in company around the south west out of Fowey.
Find single handed no prob so long as sensible about conditions and amount of canvas up
Like others I have main & genny led back to cockpit and agree reefing from cockpit is fine if you stand on the keel box - means having the lid open and washboards out so can get wet inside in rain and asumes you have no canopy up.
I also use a tiller mate cost about £20 but invauluable
Ian
Find single handed no prob so long as sensible about conditions and amount of canvas up
Like others I have main & genny led back to cockpit and agree reefing from cockpit is fine if you stand on the keel box - means having the lid open and washboards out so can get wet inside in rain and asumes you have no canopy up.
I also use a tiller mate cost about £20 but invauluable
Ian
Solo sailing
I also sail a Rutland mostly single handed, my boats is Webley.
I find that a a rolled up Genoa reduces your ability of sailing up wind in anything above f4 and if you unroll it abit and accept to much sail I end up going side ways stalling every other time I try and tack.
I've also found that even on the lake the waves can stop you tacking unless you have enough sail to punch through. At Rutland its at the point where the tops are just turning over with foam.
I was thinking of gettting a smaller jib for those windy days!
Just haven't worked out what size yet.
Guess its just a draw back of having a great light boat that sails well in light winds. Could also be to do with the old age of my sails!
I find that a a rolled up Genoa reduces your ability of sailing up wind in anything above f4 and if you unroll it abit and accept to much sail I end up going side ways stalling every other time I try and tack.
I've also found that even on the lake the waves can stop you tacking unless you have enough sail to punch through. At Rutland its at the point where the tops are just turning over with foam.
I was thinking of gettting a smaller jib for those windy days!
Just haven't worked out what size yet.
Guess its just a draw back of having a great light boat that sails well in light winds. Could also be to do with the old age of my sails!
-
Phil De Troy
- Making way
- Posts: 33
- Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:00 pm
- Location: Seneffe (Belgium)
- Contact:
solo sailing
The problem is common to all boat with roller genua's.
Compared to classical headsails with hanks, where cloth weight and sail shape is matching the wind conditions, rolled genua's are too flat and too heavy for light winds and too hollow and too light when partly rolled. You should never set the sail with more than 3 turns rolled.
It is wise to have a flatter and heavier sail, 70% of the genua area, to use when the expected wind is a good force 4 or above. This is no problem on small boats as we choose the headsail because we leave the harbour. Just ask the sailmaker to have a high clew, so you don't need to change the traveller position out of the track range or install a second block on deck.
Phil
Compared to classical headsails with hanks, where cloth weight and sail shape is matching the wind conditions, rolled genua's are too flat and too heavy for light winds and too hollow and too light when partly rolled. You should never set the sail with more than 3 turns rolled.
It is wise to have a flatter and heavier sail, 70% of the genua area, to use when the expected wind is a good force 4 or above. This is no problem on small boats as we choose the headsail because we leave the harbour. Just ask the sailmaker to have a high clew, so you don't need to change the traveller position out of the track range or install a second block on deck.
Phil
Post generated using Mail2Forum (http://www.mail2forum.com)----- Original Message -----
From: Ed (forum-general@swift18.org)
To: forum-general@swift18.org (forum-general@swift18.org)
Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 9:19 PM
Subject: [Swift 18] Re: solo sailing
I also sail a Rutland mostly single handed, my boats is Webley.
I find that a a rolled up Genoa reduces your ability of sailing up wind in anything above f4 and if you unroll it abit and accept to much sail I end up going side ways stalling every other time I try and tack.
I've also found that even on the lake the waves can stop you tacking unless you have enough sail to punch through. At Rutland its at the point where the tops are just turning over with foam.
I was thinking of gettting a smaller jib for those windy days!
Just haven't worked out what size yet.
Guess its just a draw back of having a great light boat that sails well in light winds. Could also be to do with the old age of my sails!
Phil De Troy www.MicroClass.org
Hi Guys,
Yet another Rutland sailor!
When we got Samphire, we decided to have a smaller Working Jib cut to avoid this problem - see earlier post. It really works! The one we have is not the small one of around 55 ft sq as in the drawings - see posts elsewhere from me on sail sizes etc - we had one which is about 80ft sq and so is what Philip recommends.
It works well and the boat both points and behaves well in stronger weather.
regards,
Tony
PS I had been wondering about getting all the Rutland Swifts together for an informal 'Rally' and inviting others along. I'm a 28 year member the sailing club which we could use as a base. Any takers? T
Yet another Rutland sailor!
When we got Samphire, we decided to have a smaller Working Jib cut to avoid this problem - see earlier post. It really works! The one we have is not the small one of around 55 ft sq as in the drawings - see posts elsewhere from me on sail sizes etc - we had one which is about 80ft sq and so is what Philip recommends.
It works well and the boat both points and behaves well in stronger weather.
regards,
Tony
PS I had been wondering about getting all the Rutland Swifts together for an informal 'Rally' and inviting others along. I'm a 28 year member the sailing club which we could use as a base. Any takers? T
-
Phil De Troy
- Making way
- Posts: 33
- Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:00 pm
- Location: Seneffe (Belgium)
- Contact:
solo sailing
Just an addition
Instead of a roller genua, it could be fine to use a well-sized working jib (100-110% foretriangle) on the furler, then have a second halyard to hoist a full-sized 150%genua , lighter cloth than the rolling one (usually 150%), a cable in the luff and good blocks to give tension on the cable, additional trim of the cloth by an adustment eye (also named cunningham).
This is the genua - illegal for racing - I like to use on my performance Micro
Phil
Instead of a roller genua, it could be fine to use a well-sized working jib (100-110% foretriangle) on the furler, then have a second halyard to hoist a full-sized 150%genua , lighter cloth than the rolling one (usually 150%), a cable in the luff and good blocks to give tension on the cable, additional trim of the cloth by an adustment eye (also named cunningham).
This is the genua - illegal for racing - I like to use on my performance Micro
Phil
Post generated using Mail2Forum (http://www.mail2forum.com)----- Original Message -----
From: AFG (forum-general@swift18.org)
To: forum-general@swift18.org (forum-general@swift18.org)
Sent: Monday, February 01, 2010 12:54 PM
Subject: [Swift 18] Re: solo sailing
Hi Guys,
Yet another Rutland sailor!
When we got Samphire, we decided to have a smaller Working Jib cut to avoid this problem - see earlier post. It really works! The one we have is not the small one of around 55 ft sq as in the drawings - see posts elsewhere from me on sail sizes etc - we had one which is about 80ft sq and so is what Philip recommends.
It works well and the boat both points and behaves well in stronger weather.
regards,
Tony
PS I had been wondering about getting all the Rutland Swifts together for an informal 'Rally' and inviting others along. I'm a 28 year member the sailing club which we could use as a base. Any takers? T
Phil De Troy www.MicroClass.org